In this episode we break down what Daddy Dom Romance books are all about.
Genre: BDSM - defines the power exchange in this type of play.
Subgenre: DaddyDom – levels and classifications
The type of relationship Full time, in and out, the scene only, scheduled time.
Discussion points for Daddy Dom
Hi, I'm Ann Jensen coming to you from the east coast of New Jersey. Hi, I'm Skyler West coming to you from the west coast of Canada. We are two Romance Writers using our life experiences to break down and share with you all things romance, how you find your next book boyfriend, discovering genres and tropes and looking at what works and why and what doesn't work and why. Welcome back to coast to coast Romans. Today we're going to be covering daddy dots and the sub genre within BDSM and the books that are covered by them. We wanted to make people completely aware before they listen any further that we are going to be talking about an edge kink. And if that makes you uncomfortable, feel free to move on to the next episode. Alright. So here we are. So n one it you tell us the definition. First of all of what BDSM is where it fits into the romance genre. So BDSM can mean a lot of things to a lot of different people. But most people see it as bondage dominance, sadomasochism, a masochism, other people say, slave master, you know, the letters can mean a lot of things. But really what it is, it's about a power exchange relationship. And within the romance genre, this became popular with 50 Shades of Grey, which love or hate that particular book, it did bring that sub lifestyle into the general populace is mind. Right. So even though there were many, many books, going back to the story of Oh, and that existed long before 50 Shades of Grey, there was an explosion after that book of a much more widely accepted sub genre that even some of the big five slash four are now publishing. Right. And you know, it's interesting that you use 50 shades as your example because you're right, there are books like, I think I read the story of Oh, back in 1983. So it's been around a long time. Yeah. And rice, there was, Oh, yeah. And racist books. I've read all of those, too. And they're excellent. underneath one of her other pen names, the claiming of claiming of beauty Sleeping Beauty. Yeah, yeah. And that was a whole genre that took off from that, too. There was a lot of fairy tale BDSM read stories within Yeah, within the romance genre, but 50 shades got a lot of both negative and positive attention, regardless of the fact that I had a lot of attention. Right became movies. There was a lot of discussion around. And this is one of our points today. And so I wanted to bring it up. Now. There's a lot of discussion around that only broken people participate in this alternative lifestyle, of which I very much disagree, but and this particular story, 50 shades, he is a broken guy. Right? Right. And he's over compensated with all the things that he can't come to terms with, by becoming this mega successful in his head. Everything's rationalized kind of personality. And so I think it's important that people understand that, as you always say, in your podcast, this is reality adjacent, writing that her story is simply an expression of how she either participated or viewed a particular kink within a story that she wanted to create about a guy who was broken. Right and right. The other thing is, is what a lot of people don't seem to understand is that the only reason that 50 Shades of Grey was acceptable was because it was a book. Because if we couldn't hear the inner thoughts of the heroine, really what he did was, you know, non consent, he just knew. Well, that's a big actual discussion piece for me today is, and it actually comes up in sci fi as well. Is the is it consensual? Or isn't it consensual or barely consensual? Because in a lot of the Sci Fi that we'll talk about on a future podcast, you know, there's a lot of races, alien races, kidnap kids. Sure. And, you know, there's this dominance that comes that's, again, you've often said as acceptable more in an alien race culture than it is in our everyday writing. So let's get back to then the the purpose which was to discuss exactly what right and this is one of the things that is beautiful about the the sheer number of books out there is that you have a whole spectrum as far as consent and how careful they are to make it quote, quote, realistic, that sort of thing. But the broader question of BDSM. And novels aside, what we're focusing on today is Daddy dogs. And even within that, everything's a spectrum. I mean, we have your own books written under your other pen name, rogue London, which is a DOM who wants to be called that. Right? And maybe a little bratty behavior from the sub or more rebellious teenager kind of personality, all the way through the spectrum down to avbl, which is the baby diaper lovers. And so people who actually do age play, and they regress So and actually have the daddy. Yeah. So there's, there's actually two you're right, completely different styles. And, and what's interesting about that relationship, the daddy DOM relationship, is it's not exclusively limited to the male, female. So this works the same way in the reverse. Oh, yeah. You know, you have mommies and little boys, and you have daddies and little boys. And you have mommies and little girls and the whole caregiver and aunties and uncles, and there's a lot of different things. But I think the main thing within the genre that I would separate is, it's not even about the age play that separates it. It's the DOM who wants to be called Daddy, and daddy Dom, right? So Daddy DOM or mommy dot Dom A is their primary interest is in that caretaking, their primary interest is usually in controlling the majority of the other person's life, not just on a sexual nature, but as far as tours and keeping their lifestyle factors, lifestyle factors and finances, and you know, all of that it's very much in keeping with that idea of within the BDSM realm of the power exchange, it's just a different type of power exchange. Right? Right. And there's a reason you know, someone who proclaims or a wants to be or identifies with that role is usually someone that already omits or exudes those qualities that you would normally trust in a figure. Correct? Yeah, I mean, the the childlike wonder, the irresponsibility, the joy in life of someone who wants to be on the sub side. And the, I don't want to say fuddy duddy, but more serious, but nurturing, if not Stern, Dom donnay, you usually can, in a book like this, you would see those qualities in that person. Now, what's interesting that I find is, a lot of the books have one real one what I would not, I don't want to say it's not the only realistic element that they have. But is the age play used as a form of relaxation? Yes, which again, behind straw like like the, like the title of Daddy DOM or a DOM, that's a daddy. It has completely different meanings. You're absolutely right. So let's explore some of these concepts a little bit more deeply. I think, from everything that I've read, and written personally and experienced, that you can identify that personality of the daddy DOM is that person that you can lean on no matter what. So there tends to be a misunderstanding, I think in the in the regular world, of what that means, like outside of that lifestyle outside of that community. Right. I think people tend to look at that as a need. That seems needy, or is birthed from, again, an imperfection that we should be better than that. We shouldn't need anything. We're all independent. But the end of the day, even an executive who runs a billion dollar company wants to be able to chillax. And how can they do that? This is another way. Right? Right. And I think it's important to understand that in no way shape or form, are we or anyone who writes legitimate, that E Dom, slash at age Play Books, the thought of it being about actual children is not anywhere in the realm of our thoughts? No, it's fully consenting completely Bilotta dolly adults? Yep, people. And what's interesting is the difference between the personality types Were for a submissive, they want to go into that childlike trance to give up their stresses and give up their responsibilities and be able to just relax. And that's what they get out of it. Whereas on the reverse side for the DOM and the Dom A, it's about being able to focus on a single individual and care for their needs and meet their needs, that they find their relaxation that they find the ultimate control and find a soothing piece in yes, you could also, when you describe that, it makes me think of more of the characteristics where you have a couple that are consenting adults, and they are more, I guess you could say that they just enjoy cultivating a closeness between them. They're not he's not a sadist. And she's not necessarily a slave. This is a softer lifestyle. That's more about caring and growing, I think, regardless of whether they're just playing or engaging in it in full, you know, a full time kind of deal, right. And the punishments in this sort of story are more about maintaining boundaries and showing you care, right, and not about where masochist finds joy and pain, right? Punishments within the daddy Dom, sometimes stray away from spanking, because the submissive also happens to be a masochist. And so they'll receive spankings as rewards instead. Yeah, but they'll have to write lines stand in the corner. Yeah. And I think it depends again, on if you are doing this, so you're talking about the DDL G, right, the daddy DOM and the little girl, right, you're not gonna have, you know, someone who is maybe playing a middle or even an adult, that's going to write lines, usually, usually those things are for that entity or style that comes with being a child. Well, I the dynamic, I mean, and once again, not in any way, shape, or form saying, this is about children, but I think it's a lot like when you raise children, you know, small children require a smack, or a spank or something like that, to shock them and just show them that you know, something's wrong or be put in a timeout or something like that. But as they get older, their punishments become more complex. Right? So depending on what age they regret, to regress to, but in a DOM that prefers to be called Daddy, I don't even necessarily know if they would. I mean, there are some stories and some in yours, where, you know, obviously Dom's have rules, and if they're broken their punishments, but it doesn't have that same rigid structure, where the DOM is fully in control. And I've often said that it's more equipment, you know, the, the daddy Dom, little girl little boy relationship is more equivalent to the slave master. Because it's a full exchange of power. Yes. It's not just, I like expect me in the bedroom, or, Oh, okay, when you put your foot down, I'll listen to you. It's what do you eat? When do you sleep? All those elements are part of the story. Absolutely. And there's a complete giving up of control. Right? Which, which makes sense why you would say it falls into that category. But it's still different than so here's what I find interesting, if you if you can, if you break them all down, you have the DDL G, which is different than AB DL, right? considerably. And the reasons why you engage in neither of those are also very different. Right? Right. So if you look, I mean, especially if DDL G is a little or middle, right? They might not engage in the younger baby play at all. And there are some stories that I enjoy where sometimes when in high stress situations, they do different ages, right? And apdl is is really just about the people who go to the full level of diapers and bottles and all that sort of thing. Now, what's interesting is I find there's a huge divide even within the people who read the sub genre, in that some don't want any sexualized play while the sub is age regressed. And I think that's interesting because they're able to suspend their disbelief but then not understand that they're still an adult. inside that person's Yeah, and I think a lot of it too comes down to intention and what it's being used for. Because there are I mean, basically, a B deals and adult baby diaper lover. Right? They might love that because of the actual sensation of comfort. Right. Right. So it's not a sexual standpoint is a? or is, like a fetish side, it's more of a non fetish or giving complete control or that someone cares. Yeah, so there's a lot of non or have that party there. There's a lot of non sexual reasons. Yes. So I think, yes, I think there are probably people that play within the realm, and maybe their boundaries could even be slightly different than each other. Yeah. But end of the day for, I think, for that specific one, there's going to be two reasons why or why not? Right? It's always going to be about intention. Right? And I think this is a situation where it's an it's a niche kink, but it is you. So when you write romance, you always are thinking like, you know, who is my audience? And do I want to market it to the biggest audience available? Or do I want to find a niche and with a niche, you get built in readers, because there aren't that many books about that particular nation. So people who are searching them out are a lot more likely to find you than, say, a plain contemporary romance. Absolutely. You know, you're you're a lot less likely to stumble across an author if you're if you're just searching on contemporary romance. But if you're searching on very specific kinks, or very specific storylines, you're more likely to find it. Well, that's like if you just go with a generic title of age play. Right? I mean, that that's a broad expanse. Yeah. And really almost covers a trope, whereas or sub genre, you know, inside of that there could be a lot of different things going on. Yeah. And we had Sean Montgomery on and she does M M, age play a whole series of them pepper north. When I found her books. I have to admit that even I was like, Oh, wow, because she has Dr. kink thrown in. Right. Yeah, that's a roleplay within a kink. All right, all right. But in her books, it's not a roleplay There's Dr. Richards, Liz littles He's, uh, Richard and he takes care of littles, little community and right and it's, it's a very specific need within the romance novel, tropes, you know, like going to the doctor and being taken care of by the doctor and having to do things that you wouldn't necessarily want to do. And then you go all the way up to a little bit more mainstream with Leila Roberts and Montana daddy's, right and that sort of thing. And you need to almost find someone who writes what you're interested in reading, because just searching for age play, you're going to find everything from forced regression, which I'm not a fan of, right, where one partner forces the other to make them relax, or, you know, because they've been too stressful, and they're afraid they're gonna have a heart attack or something like that. So they forced them to regress all the way up to just innocent people who find someone who enjoys being a caretaker. And even if they don't call it or they do call it age play, it's pretty obvious that that's what they're doing. sippy cups versus bottles versus just like caring per person. Yeah. And and here's the thing, too, is that I, I've heard a lot of debate about what is the definition and we you kind of started off talking about the two main differences between daddy DOM and a, and a DOM that likes to be called Daddy, or vice versa, you know, a dummy, wanting to be called, you know, mommy, or the reverse. Right? Right. And I want to say that there's characteristics that are involved in that personality regardless of which one those are and that they still are both very valid underneath the title of Daddy DOM. Yeah, it to me is long as the Dom's primary goals is the caretaking and the and the keeping in line of you know, setting boundaries that action caregiving, mentoring, teaching, right, all of those, all of those play a part in either one of those. So basically from from diver play all the way up to just a kink within the relationship or within a BDSM relationship. You know, it's funny, I used to look at these as levels of depth. So, I used to think okay, well you know, if you're first checking out at kink. Whether you're reading it or checking it out in real life, you kind of start with the most common things. And then if you're really into it, you kind of start to work your way down, relist into these deeper levels. And so I always looked at these as being deeper levels, but they're not they really are aspects of the same thing. It's just finding out what really works for you at the end of the day. And there are, as you said, You've mentioned many really great authors that write these things. And I'm having a lot of fun as rogue London writing. In this realm, I'm writing a different series right now. And in mine, there's always a girl who's gone south. Right, figuratively speaking, and need somebody. Right? And, and again, even in our relationships, the people we pick in our lives have a lot to do with our personalities, right? Do we pick someone who just stays out of your face? Right, that really has equal life, but separate mostly from your own? And, you know, you have whatever your your pieces together? Or do you pick someone who's right in your face, who wants to, you know, everything's joined? Like there's, there's we gravitate towards what we feel we need, I think, in a lot of ways now. And with these books, what's interesting, at least I have noticed is that with a standard BDSM book, although the Dom has always got a dominant personality, in a standard BDSM, usually the sub outside of the scene or outside very private moments, is not submissive, day to day, they they're very, they're on their own characters. They're strong characters and everything like that. And what I find interesting in the people who do abd or daddy Dom Well, is that they can show that. So I see more in the daddy DOM of a lifestyle, right? Rather than a weekend play, or a scene play or a, the. And it seems to me that the people who gravitate towards these books are looking for that they're looking for the fantasy of someone who could take care of them 24/7 apps, but I bet a lot of these people in their everyday life would be driven. Absolutely not. You're probably right, if every aspect of this because I'll even admit myself, like, you know, I'm a single mom of two kids, I have a very high stress day job. I'm also an author, all these kinds of things does the idea of someone coming in, wrapped me up, kiss me on the head and taking care of all my problems sound amazing? Yeah. And like two weeks later, I'd be like, alright, that that's good. I'm done now. Me, there are people who very happily live this life. I know people who live this lifestyle, and who live 24/7 Or who only live it in the scene or all of those kinds of things. But it seems like in the fantasy in the romance novels, the majority of the writing is about 24/7 relationships. Well, and I I like I think my favorites are where there is a where there's growth. So again, if you take one of these characters, female characters who's gone south, figuratively speaking, what benefits them to being with someone who's able to grow them as a person. And I think that's a huge component. Because a lot of these relationships are designed to MIT to assist you in being a better you like the best version of you process for interview, and who doesn't really want that at the end of day to be the best version of self. Oh, yeah, that's what really feeds that fantasy why those books are, in particular, are so popular, and not just gone south, but like, I've seen a lot of where their life is falling apart, and they've lost their apartment or it didn't take care of their bills and everything like that. And the daddy Damas comes in and helps organize their life and helps them get back on their feet. Or one of my favorite, in this particular is when the little or the sob is an artist of some sort, and is miserable in their life, because they weren't able to follow their dream or follow their fantasy. And the DOM enables them to, to follow the dream by financially taking over for them and allowing them to be a happy person. It's not that they because it's not that they're a child 24/7 A day or anything like that. It's just that they give them the space and the time to structure and also, yep, organize their life so that it gets to a point that they can chase their dreams they can chase the things that they just being frustrated at Ulta not knowing where to go and that's a huge thing that she brings up a point for me too. If if you look at the day differences between the stories and say shifter stories, right? So there's this element in the shifter stories where you know these guys their dorms their alphas They want control. So you have that immediate, you know, dynamic within that description, but it doesn't necessarily make them caregivers. Right. Right. And so that is that some shifter books will lean that way where and some of them are quite Savage, right? So even within that spectrum, but I find that that lifting up and assisting within all of that play or all of that dynamic or whatever they hold us to is really critical. And I think that I'm a real sucker personally for that particular niche. If, and I will admit this, there are many edge kinks out there that I have no interest in, or just doesn't do it for me. But I will read them, because I'm interested by either the caregiving next aspect or the romantic story behind the kink. Absolutely, yeah. We talked about the chemical, no interest there. But good story. Absolutely. And you know what, there's nothing like a good story, well written story, you know, and when it is well written, it doesn't really matter what it is. So I started a new story. Last night, I spent an hour roaming through my Kindle and I spent so much time roaming through my Kindle, finding the perfect story that I was in the mood for that I had no time to read it. That's too funny. So I'm looking forward to bedtime tonight. I will admit, I have a couple that I go back to on a regular basis. And I have you marked just like mood like, my life's getting hard this when I'm when I'm struggling with money, this, I'm struggling with this, this. And it just gives me that hour to to step outside my head and pretend that it can all be fixed in a in a short story. Absolutely. I mean, let's face it, romance because these are a sub genre of romance has a happy for now, or a happily ever after. So you know what you're getting. And that's important. Like if you want it sometimes I just want to be scared. I want to, you know, I'm a big junkie for American Horror Story. I love it because it shocks me, takes me somewhere else. And I'll literally laugh my hands and clap with glee because I'm so excited. There's no episode. But a romance is the same. It's like I to be able to tap out and tap into a different reality adjacent place where everything ends up being awesome. You know, it can get bad, but then by the end, you know, it's gonna be good victory. And I think that's the thing is, as long as we all know that there is hope. Right, whether in the story or in life, we're okay. Yeah, yeah. And I think one of the reasons I wanted to talk about this particular sub drummer, not that we're not going to end up probably talking about every sub genre by the time time passes, but it's because it gets a bad rap. Yeah, it shouldn't get a bad rap. It's, it's good. And although I don't write it, you know, I could write it someday. I like the idea of the caregiver. I like the idea of stories about people with human kindness about people wanting to help others lift up. And I think that's what's at the core of the daddy DOM craze. I agree with you. I think that we're all searching for that amazing human being. Yeah. And if anyone listening to us hasn't read a daddy DOM book or anything like that the dirty daddy's anthology is a great springboard he like because it's short stories. There's lots of them. Everything from like we said actual age play to. Yeah, and you'll find the mafia daddy's stories are the are similar. I think there's 10 of them. Short stories in there with a variety of authors. Some of them are the same as in the dirty dandies anthology as well. I just finished that when it was called. It's called Dark bows. Yeah, it was quite good as well. Yeah, and now I will admit that there are certain series that just make me giggle every time I read them, and I still read them so I'm not gonna I'm not even gonna but like there's like motorcycle daddies and like certain personality types, which to me just don't mesh with the vibe, but somehow people mean it managed to pack it into the Yeah, I can't help but write the rich, alpha dominant daddy home trailer. Oh, yeah. They got it all man. They're perfect. Of course. Of course they are. Of course, that's what we want our cars to be. Absolutely well cultured, but you know about buried in the sack, come on. Think pepper North wrote a story that I absolutely loved it was about a mom, a mommy and a combat vet, actually, oh, that sounds interesting. And he was suffering with PTSD. And he was, he was barely able to function because of all these kinds of things. And he was in the movies, it started out with them in the movie theater. And he basically started having a PTSD attack. And she saw him and got him out of there and helped him ground himself. And then, like we said, building up and everything like that. She helped him find his center, she helped him find his grounding. And you know, it was placed back in society and everything like that. And she acted as you know, as as mommy. And I, I don't think we have enough good female dominant stories out there. There are few. And I love I think I find them. I think there is still a long ways to go. And I find that we'll we'll talk more probably at our next podcast when we discuss sci fi and sigh fantasy romance. Yeah, same thing is I mean, I remember when, you know, alien came out and whatever it was 1979 or something. It was a long time ago and Sigourney Weaver played the lead. Right. And, you know, it was great that they had this tough, smart, I don't care what you guys do, this is what I'm doing. If you want to live, you'll come with me attitude, right. But also use her her role as a woman to understand the beast, the alien, because of course, it was trying to give birth spread its little babies everywhere. I think since then, I feel like since the early 80s, it's been this long, evolving process of women coming into roles that they're comfortable with. Right? Yeah. And to be able to write about those and use them. I mean, I know I am a strong woman who has been a professional athlete, I've competed. I have a strong mind, I have incredible willpower. And I love using those qualities of my characters. But that doesn't necessarily mean they have to be these kick ass. People that want to dominate. But at the same token, this works great for those too. Yeah, no. And I think we have a lot of good authors out there that do the good kick ass female with an alpha male partner. Yes. And showing that they both can be strong and everything like that. I think what I loved so much about this particular story was the fact that he was an alpha male. And she was an alpha female. But she was a caregiver, and was able in it, you know what I mean? Like, so? Yeah, she was able to find that balance in the reverse of what we're usually looking for, where the woman doesn't have to make herself lesser to have an alpha male partner. In this, the alpha male partner didn't have to make himself lesser. Yeah, that's wonderful to submit. But I'll also admit that I think I love the mischief in some age play. Because every now and then, as a fully grown adult, I won't, I will admit that, like, I remember, you know, the ability to go out and skip and jump and TP the neighbor's house, whatever, you know. Right, like pranks, or you know, just that sheer enthusiasm. And so, sometimes I'll read an age play romance, just to get that sense of wonder that some authors are great at putting into their writing. Absolutely. They're sometimes being able to write about, or read as you say, that particular time. I think that's why I my a lot of my characters, in fact, the majority of my female characters that I write about are in their very early adulthood. They haven't forgotten yet. And they still have the physical capabilities to indulge and they still have enough attitude to pull a lot of it off. Yeah, I take my hat off to them. They're a lot of fun. But yes, yeah, I agree. Now, it's interesting that you say that because when I write my characters, I know that their intelligence, like I make sure that it's not a helpless female that needs a big Batman to come in. And with a lot of the age play, I think, authors do a good job that showing that Being enjoying childlike things or enjoying somebody spanking you or calling someone daddy or anything like that does not make you incompetent, it does not make you unable to function. It just means that maybe you're better with a caretaker or your life could be better with someone added to it. Yes. Someone added to it that has that quality. That's just magic. Now, one thing I what I like about your books, and I put a little bit of this in one of my books, but I have trouble sometimes writing it is the brat. That's my middle name. And maybe it's because I have teenage kids right now. So the brat is just like, Huh, no. Yeah, but I think you do that really? Well. What is it that draws you about writing the brat? Or, you know, what do you think it brings to a story? Well, it's funny you say that because I am also a parent, I have five kids, four of which are adults, one as a child, and she's, she's lovely, especially compared to what I think I used to think like. But I was just I guess for me, the quality of always pushing the bar, it's always pushing against that invisible wall or that invisible bar. I want to do this, I'm going to do this, I can do this. I want to do this and not having to have it turn out. Right. So So a common theme for myself and my characters is I'm going to charge the hill with my toothbrush. And I'll figure out the rest of that stuff when I get there. Right, which is so different than the way most people think most people want to get their ducks in a row. They want to draw out a compare and contrast sheet. They want to feel like they they want all the answers before they make a decision. Hmm, my characters won't do that. Because the woman who wrote them doesn't do that. I think you're telling us something about yourself. There you go. Okay, maybe. I don't know if you're judging me through the through. Because I might overplay at what some of you who are listening might not understand is that Skyler and I have got to be complete opposites. When it comes to writing and things like that, in that I am what would be called an Uber plotter. I have all my characters laid out, I have all the plots laid out I have an outline that's been expanded into a summary that's been expanded into chapter summaries, and everything like that. And then I read my book. And Skylar like, I got this idea. And then our work written and she's like, ooh, and now I got another idea and the next day. I think the epitome of our differences was pretty funny. One night, when Anne and I were talking about the Myers Briggs personalities. And hers was identified as an extrovert Am I was identified as an introvert. But she started off by saying, I think, and I started off by saying, I feel and that is exactly what we write, she thinks, and I feel. And then we eventually get around to the other parts, because of course, you want to be, you know, engage all your faculties when you create something, but yeah, you're absolutely right. And it's one of the reasons why I think we get on so well. Yeah, yeah. Did we have anything else we wanted? I think we covered it all. Let me just wrap up by saying, try it out. Read the stories. Don't judge them based on some preconceived notion. And before you pick up an age, play romance, find a good one. Because unfortunately, it is one of those genres that there are many, many, many bad erotica version. Yes. And then follow Ann's advice, which is always to read the reviews first. Thank you for listening to coast to coast romance. We'll see you next week. Thank you for listening to coast to coast romance. I'm Ann Jensen. And I'm Skyler West. If you'd like to contact either of us. Our links are located in the show notes. Have a great week. Thanks so much for joining us.