Romance Subgenres – And how they fit into our reading habits
In this episode we discuss:
The larger, or main genres that include romance and how romance can exist inside any genre.
Romance Subgenres and their components
We also discuss the difference between Erotic Romance and Erotica.
Hi, I'm Ann Jensen coming to you from the east coast of New Jersey. Hi, I'm Skyler West coming to you from the west coast of Canada. We are two romance writers using our life experiences to break down and share with you all things romance, how you find your next book, boyfriend, discovering genres and troops and looking at what works and why and what doesn't work and why. In today's episode, we're going to be talking about romance sub genres and how they fit into our reading habits. Hi, Skylar. Hey, how are you? doing? We have been having fun yet? Yes, we are. We're just getting started. And we're already having fun. That's awesome. Okay, so yeah, we're definitely going to talk about sub genres. And there are large genres. And you and I have talked about this before, when I say larger, I mean, main that include romance. So I have and you feel free to jump in. I have noticed that just about any book. And I mentioned I alluded to this in session, one that Herman has his books have this compassion, this love in them that grows with the characters as the characters grow, even though it's they're not romantically in, you know, together? Most sci fi, and I'm going to use Star Wars as an example also has romance in it. Oh, yes. So romance has a part in bigger or other much larger genres. Yeah. However, there are some subcategories or sub genres as you made reference to. And one of my favorites, is historical data. This is where we differ. This is where we diverge. One of many, but I don't write historical romance. I write contemporary and kind of a little bit on the futuristic side. But I don't write historical but man, do I like to read them? Yeah. And I know that historical is probably one of the biggest sub genres that absolutely people love. I am just one of those people who I love my moderns. And I love my futures. But yes, it's not my thing. Well, and I think it's interesting, because until I homeschooled my kids for 10 years, and I taught history, and it wasn't until I taught history that I like to store cool romance. So there is like connection in there. But you know, you think about Beauty and the Beast, you know, there's something that everyone is really a well, that's historical, you know, think about France go back a couple of years, you know, long before the French Revolution. That's historical. Yeah. And it's funny. I love myself a good fantasy that's in like a medieval world. Right. But for some reason, the pure historicals they just, I don't know, they don't take my boxes, but that does. There's nothing wrong with them. I'm probably going to get a flood of recommendations for it because of this. But yeah, I've just never read one that I didn't feel like, Oh, yeah, no, they were smelly. And oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. I mean, it's hard not to go really look. But here's my favorite romance historical is when they'll talk about how you smell. You know what's real. Because there was not a lot of dating back then. But I think I've read if you read Joseph Campbell, he talks about archetypes. And I believe that depending on what arch type that you relate to, is what kind of books you're going to like. As an example, even though I'm older than 30 and younger than 100. I actually mentally really align with the maiden. Okay, so in that archetype, so I tend to like those, the coming of age, when the romance and the love is new, those sensations are new, your body has just developed into adulthood, you know, you're finally an adult you finally arrived, and all those things that are hinted that you finally get to participate in. Now, that's interesting, because I would honestly say that I'm definitely a mother energy. There you go. So you're in the middle. So yeah, that makes sense that you would go with something that's more than now. Right? Yeah. And, yeah, so it's, it's interesting how it all plays out. And the other thing about historical romance, of course, if you look at that, as a sub genre is the types of main characters and their personalities that you're going to come across. So you're going to get a lot of those back then men were dominant. Right, women weren't you have pre arranged marriage. Right. Right. So because women were chattel, so that gets into a whole interesting thing, because, you know, women fought really hard for women's rights, right? So why would they want to kind of almost de evolve or devolve, and and enjoy a story where you have this pre arranged marriage with this dominant person that literally owns you, right? Because you don't, you're not allowed to own anything, right? But if you The arch type that relates to the Maidan, it makes perfect sense to you because you still want to be protected. And I also think one of the arguments that I have so many times with people is that this is fantasy. This is not what I write what I read what I what I enjoy, in general, in a intellectual sense, has no impact on who you are, who I am, or the person that I would let into my life. Well, that's a really good point, because I think people will take I've read reviews where I shake my head, because I'm like, why would someone leave a review and say something like that about a book when it's not? No, it's that was sexist. It's like what? Yeah, oh, the relationship moved too fast. Yes, Yes, it did. It absolutely. Did a normal relationship should take more than this amount of time to get from first meet to love. However, yes, it's living. It's actually that would be an awfully long book. And while Yeah, I guess as an author, we could just have a whole bunch of and then they went off and had a bunch of dates, and then they came back. Yeah. But that would be boring. It would be so boring. And you know, what's interesting is, you know, some other tropes that fall in there is the so you've got first love, which is fake engagement. Now, Jane castells. Does this brilliant job of writing her books all take place during Robert, the Bruce of William Wallace, all of them. So it isn't, I haven't read. I've read three different series. And they're all the same time period. But hers are really interesting because she's got these really interesting women who don't want to have to do what they're told. So, so a lot of them end up in a nunnery because they're obviously belligerent. But what's neat is that they go for forbidden love or fake engagements, right? These are all additional tropes that a lot of people don't think about. But it makes perfect sense. If back then they didn't have cameras, they didn't have phones, couldn't email. How did you know what someone looked like? Right? You didn't so to be able to, to fake your personality and step into the shoes of another person, pretty easy. Now it's it's interesting, because in the last thing, I mentioned that I like Broadway plays and everything like that there is a Broadway play called six. And it tells the stories of King Henry's wives. Right. And one of his wives. He tried to divorce because she didn't look like her portrait. Oh, yeah, that's a that was an of Cleves. Yeah, I know that story very well. So it was I think this The story goes, divorced, beheaded, died. Yes. divorced, beheaded, survived. survived was last one. Well, she did for a little bit. Catherine Parr. Yeah, until she fell in love with her. Oh, boy. It's complicated. But basically, she fell in love with one of Henry's quarters. And then she died in childbirth. right because she was older and she was already in her early 40s. But yeah, Emma Cleves was a German, her and Henry actually became best friends. And apparently, she was an exquisite gambler and took him for a ton of money. Awesome. She apparently was the wealthiest person in the kingdom. Now, those are the romance stories. We read stories we need to read. Oh, yeah. Well, I've read like Margaret George writes about Henry the Eighth. That's a big book, but it's so good. She does a really good job. And I actually find that particular era in history really fascinating that Renaissance and reformation and in particular are my faves. Now going along with historical we have Regency which I know neither of us is a particular expert in Yes. And to me and I think you agree Regency has its own following like, if you follow Regency you, you follow Regency you know, if you read Regency that's, that's your thing, and not many people cross out of that, because it has so many rules and so many conventions and so many things that I honestly, I know very little about, but it's the the manners and the Yeah, it's I would say Victorian era myself. But I mean, really, it's the British. It's a period in British history. Right? That primarily is the 19th century. So yeah, in order to be honorable to that time in history, there is definitely some very specific things required. Right. And, you know, romance, or I'm sorry, the Regency isn't for everybody, but it's a variant of historical romance, right? most agree that Regency has really become its own thing, right. And the romances probably diverge from historical romances in terms of focal point, right. There's less weight on the steamy, more emphasis on society. And so you know how society operates Like, again, I think it's Pride and Prejudice from that time. I'm trying to think if it is, I'm not sure. But can you really get a sense of like, even the of the other Emma, you know, there's a lot of books that were written. I can't remember what Heath clip is from, but that character name stands out to me. But there's it's very specific expectation. Right, right. Yeah. And I've read a few blogs and stuff. Some include the language of flowers, and some include, you know, it's just very, like little things that I would not pick up on the story like little details. Yes. are critical to the story. And I just gloss over them not realizing, yes, he just basically proposed marriage to her, you know, like, Yeah, okay. Yeah. Well, and what, what makes that stuff, okay, and what doesn't make it okay. And, you know, what am I big things is, if I'm reading that stuff that's supposed to be historical. I don't get so caught up in the language, although there is definitely that, but if someone just someone in the hierarchy of the English aristocracy decides they're going to get married, that doesn't happen, they have to get permission. Right, right. So you know, Shakespeare love was a really great example of that is where you have to seek out permission, and you sought that out before you even talk to them. Sometimes you didn't even know you're gonna marry. Right, someone put in for your hand and the queen or the king agreed. And that was it. terrifying. Yes. All right. Yeah. So it's a very specific sub genre. Then of course, there's contemporary. Yes. Which I mean, contemporary romances now, right? Yeah. better time for love than right now. And yeah. Oh, my bread and butter. Yeah, well, for sure. And you know, what, my stuff is all contemporary. So even though it has other costumes, or blankets, you know, like paranormal or military or whatever, your, you know, MC, you're still it's still modern. It's still happening in the now. Right. And so there's references that, I think to me, contemporary also includes futuristic, as long as the society within it is something recognizable? Yes. Yes. What we're doing now? Well, interestingly enough to that it's, it's primarily after the 1970s, that's considered contemporary. So I mean, one of the first books I ever wrote was based on the 80s, I was told by purchaser for the libraries of Canada, Western Canada, that I should list it as he historical, partly historical novel, because I was writing about the 80s. And this was in 2005. See, that's interesting, because a lot of times, at least what I've noticed to different publishers, is that on their historical lines, they'll be very clear as to what point that they're interested, you know, yes, it considered historical for them. But I haven't seen many, actually, I just haven't seen many, like flapper error, like 1920s 30s 40s 50s 60s romances that weren't written during those times to be contemporary. Yes. And that is interesting, isn't it? Because I actually liked a lot of those types of books. And I've read most of those. But yeah, if it's dealing with a modern problem, the Be it theme or society, then it's considered modern. So could you arguably say that the problems of world war two or during that era are the same that we have now? Right? That's amazing. Yeah. Well, and it is if you think about like, right now we're gonna COVID right when the pandemics so if you go back to the last great pandemics, they happened to be right around World War Two. Right. So to me if you can relate, and it's still within this last, you know, and this 100 years, right, it should be considered modern to a degree but you're right. It would be I think, Outlander, you know, when they go back, and they talk about her wartime so she's writing about the 40s in the 80s. Yeah, yeah. Now, what I find interesting is that suspense even though say mystery, or cozy or anything like that is not considered a sub genre of romance. suspense is yes, I mean, I write romantic suspense, contemporary, but I find it interesting that gets its own category until I started thinking about it. And I'm like, you know what, that's absolutely true. A lot of times when people pick up a romance, they're looking for that internal conflict, they're looking for that slow burn or they're looking for a gentle ride, seek through a story and they need to be told if you're going to take them on a roller coaster instead. And so I guess that would be why most booksellers separate romantic suspense because you wouldn't want someone looking for a couple meets has a few arguments gets together and all of a sudden, yeah, 100 Perseids are attacking you mafia shows up. Oh, for sure. Well, and I like psychological suspense, right? In fact, I wrote a small novella called petals of awakening. And that's exactly what it was is this. It's, it was more all the conversation of what happened in her head. It was her personal journey. And it was, it almost reminded me of more of those movies that were popular in the 90s where you had like, you know, I can't remember what they're called, but Glenn Close cooks the rabbit. You know, there's all those instincts Basic Instinct, like, you know, those types of very psychological nuts, right? Yeah, those can be a lot of fun. But you're right. I mean, those are way more edgy. Yeah. You don't want to think you're getting When Harry Met Sally, and you get basic instinct. You sit there, and you'd be like, Oh, no. Like, what? What just happened? right? Exactly. Yeah, exactly is like, um, you know. And so I think one of the benefits to our day and age like to be a writer and a reader, at this time in history is that everything is so well laid out. You know, you're not going to get surprised. You shouldn't get surprised, unless you're not doing your due diligence. Yeah, and I'm sure you've seen this in some of your reviews. And I know I've seen it in some of my reviews. There are occasions where I want to go, did you read the blurb and as a reader, I don't care how good the cover is, or how sexy The title is, or whatever. Or even if you know the author before you hit that purchase link, you should be reading the blurb. Absolutely. You don't want to think you're picking up When Harry Met Sally and get and I works. The opposite, too, is that if it doesn't have that exclaim or warning on the bottom, I'm not gonna buy it. It's like, okay, okay, where's the steam I'm looking for? They're not listing it, so I'm not gonna buy it. Oh, yeah, no. And sometimes if they don't have it, I'll actually read some of the blurbs or some of the reviews so that I can be like, it'll say who this was very steamy, or who this was very Yes, because I have several authors that I read that are closed door, or very light peeking through the door. Right. But when I pick up their books, I know that right, there have been a couple times from the blurb and from the cover, you know, their ABS on the cover, and there is awesomeness on the cover and then fade to black. And I'm like, No, no, no, no, no, no. Oh, I saw hear you on that one. And yeah, it's disappointing. No, I have I have picked up one that I thought was sweet. And gone. Oh, wow. Okay. Here's a nice surprise. So wasn't expecting that. Well, and that's the thing is, and I still have not navigated the perfect way to market myself, I think or how I choose my books. Because if I could say, in when I'm typing into Amazon, or whatever search engine I happen to be in and write in. I want a really well written book, please. You know, and it's like, it's one thing if it's your first book, right? It's exciting, in fact, to read an author's first book and watch them grow as an author in all of their capacity. Like for me, I noticed one of the things I got really better at was describing what's going on in the bedroom without sounding clinical, right? Or without sounding like it happened all in 30 seconds. No matter how realistic that's not right, no matter how realistic, that's not what we want to hear. And so for me, one of the things I read a lot of my reviews is how much people love the characters. Yeah. And that's really what I guess I'd have to say that that's probably my number one goal is that people fall in love with the people that I'm creating. Yes, I like that. But I have to I also have to admit, I get absolute thrills every time someone does. You can tell by how they wrote it that they're embarrassed. Absolutely. I'm like, Yeah, absolutely. Well, and that's takes us to our last category, which is erotic. Yes. We actually we skipped paranormal. Did we skip paranormal? Yeah, okay, well, I'm gonna, I'm gonna talk about myself for a minute then. Okay. Good girl. I've written a series called angels and demons, which is so politically incorrect in so many ways, but I just couldn't help it. And I think if I take an answer gestion and call them magical people with wings, I probably would have done better. But if they if they had been fairies, and yet of angels, yep, there seems to be and here's the thing is the promise of my books. My series is that I mean, like Anne said, has already mentioned several times books are not real. These are not nonfiction. These are fiction books and they do not represent your Religious leanings or you're correct. And even though I have read the Bible several times cover to cover along with other journals, and other works by different countries. I have not used that in my book. But what I've done is I've taken what I love about different cultures, belief systems, hmm. And kind of roll that all into a fantasy of what if there were angels that when they fell to earth, they didn't fall because they were evil. But God had another plan, right? Or the universe had another plan, or whoever's up there, or they just happened, right? What if these people just ended up down? who'd been through here for 18,000 years? Right, hiding out going, what the heck am I doing here? Why was I sent here? I haven't morphed into some horrible creature with horns and a tail and who's right, but they have a purpose. And so through these conversations, and find each other, they realize that there's obviously some reason why they're here. It all starts to come to light when the main character I rare Escape is told that he has to find the chosen one, right? The Chosen One is the one girl that can continue the lineage that they have. Without her. They're all gonna die out. That's it, right? 18,000 years gone up in smoke. Yes. So it's not it's contemporary. It's happening right now, in the whole ideology of angels walk among us. Do you really know what you know? Can we tell the difference, but that's where it is. And so there's nothing religious in there, other than these people are looking for purpose. And then and they get one, right? And it turns out that they're the journey and the purpose is much more than they ever could have imagined. And of course, that's how the plot develops and gets exciting and suspenseful. But I primarily, I would say, the underlying words to describe my particular books all the way through our mystery adventure, right? Right. And whatever. To me, paranormal tends to not just mean like, to me, yes, you have paranormal elements in your books, but I wouldn't necessarily call them paranormal. Exactly. To me the paranormal ones or the ones that are that I would classify as paranormal are the ones that have different rules because of their race. So faded mates, you know the fairies finding their the other half of their soul or right? mermaids, mermaids, or there have been a couple where the vampire loses their soul but they can regain it if they find their their true love. Exactly. Exactly. Yeah. To me, that is shapeshifters. You know, animal mythic, werewolves dragons, tigers, magical heroine? Yeah. Yeah, you and I had talked a little earlier before this. And I had said, One of the interesting things that I find about people who read paranormal exclusively romance wise, are that a lot of times, the book being paranormal gives them permission to like character types and stories that they normally wouldn't be able to write does, that's a good point, what you have is, okay, he's an alpha, and he's a controlling jerk. And he's, you know, you know what at or he's controlling, and, you know, he kidnaps the woman, or he takes her back to her layer, or he beams her up to her spaceship, his spaceship, or whatever the case may be kidnaps the heroine, but it's okay, because he's a wearable for an alien, or, you know, or whatever the case may be. And it's okay if he's an alpha, because he's aware of Tiger or a dragon or, you know, whatever the case may be. And so it gives them permission. Whereas when they read contemporary alpha males or things of that nature, they then put contemporary morals and standards on them, instead of remembering that it's a romance story. You know, it's it's fiction. It's a fantasy. Yes. So the contemporary element gives them permission to enjoy things that they couldn't enjoy in a standard story, right? I think that is awesome. I do 200% because, you know, find your escape wherever you can find it. Yeah. Well, and, and you're right. I mean, it's, you know, if we were to look at what did I read one time that men are looking for a place and women are looking for a reason? Alright, meaning that when, when a woman historically, when a woman looks at the guy, she's looking at potential mate material, right? She's looking at everything. She's looking at his body type, does he have, you know, a history of medical diseases in his family? Like, is there cancer? What's in there? What's the shoe size? And if she's five foot two, she wants a guy who's six feet so the kids aren't too short. And the list goes on. And but a guy just looks at a girl goes, Hmm, I wonder if she would be fun. Yeah, he's thinking one night she's thinking forever. And so in these books, you know, they can take that to, the guy's not being like that. guys can be anything you want them to be right there. And I think that's another thing too is I think if you've ever had any anger in your own dating life or your own marriage or, or in trying to accomplish either one of those things, trying to find the one you get to read about the happily ever afters, right? So back to that hga happily ever after. Yes, ha. And I also think it also goes down to not that I'm a guy by any stretch of the imagination, but our thought processes are different. Yes. And in romance, I always find it interesting when people tell me that I've written a very realistic man, because out loud, he's terse, and, and short and everything like that, but in his head, he is flowery and, you know, saying dirty things, or you know, everything like that, whereas I don't necessarily believe that that's actually a realistic, you know, a realistic, man. Right? Well, and it's the same thing with, you know, I've got a great girlfriend who is over 50 and under 100. And she, she is incredibly intellectual. She's a great woman, and she's single, she's been single for a whole life, despite, you know, these attempts, but I look at her and I'm thinking you can't in reality, you can't have the hot, dirty, messy, sexy motorcycle guy without any issues that come with having a exactly correct and expect him to have a three piece suits hands back, you know, and be a perfectly in company and let you tell them what to do. Like it doesn't work that way. Right? It's like you never figured out the difference between reality and fiction. Yeah, no. So I think I've mentioned this author to you before, but I think one of the best scenes I've ever read in a book that was about romance books, was in it was in Ilona Andrews, one of her Kate Daniels series. But what it was, was the male lead, or one of the male characters had found out that the girl he was interested in love this particular romance series, so and she was missing a couple books from the series. So he goes out, and he finds them, and he buys them up the entire series to give her as like this big romantic gift. But he reads them off. And he's talking to her best friend. And he goes, so I've read these books. And basically, these men, you know, they're big and strong and tough, and they kidnap the heat, they kidnap the women, and they, you know, they blackmail them into marrying them by threatening their sisters, you know, life or something like that. And they're just waiting inside to be a soft, mushy, you know, once the woman's love comes to them, and he goes, and he and he looks at the master. And he goes, I can't be that, that, that if that's what she wants this. That's not what I'm looking for. And the best friend turns to him and goes, let me see if I can explain this to you. If you kidnapped her sister, she shoots you in the head several times with a silver bullet. However, if one night, you were to come home and put on a pirate shirt, that's awesome. And play acted out. I think that's what she that was just such a beautiful encapsulation of the difference between guess what will read and enjoy in a fantasy setting versus Yeah. And I mean, how many times have you read a book or seen a show where a married couple as an example, you know, they want a little bit more steam in their sex life? Because maybe it's taken a dive, maybe they've had a couple of kids and all they do is work and yeah, they meet at a hotel bar, and pretend they don't know each other. Right? They pick each other up. Exactly. And it's funny how changing the role allows for the intimacy to reignite, Yes, right. So sometimes our books can allow that to happen. In reality, it has that trigger, right? Which goes perfectly into our last shot genre erotic. Absolutely. Remember, I gotta tell you, the story is so off the cuff, but I was working in my office, my husband and I used to have run a clinic and client came in and she looked at me, she goes, have you read 50 Shades of Grey? And I said 50 Shades Of what? And she goes, you know, they brought it in at Walmart. 50 Shades of Grey. I said No, I haven't heard of it. And her husband looks at me goes well don't read it. It's it's porn for soccer moms. It's disgusting. right up my alley. Well, now I'm curious because you know, she, she that's all she talked about for the next hour. Was this book. What irregardless of his personal opinion they had three kids or four kids between the two of them hmm They were each a second marriage. And they had had more sexual intercourse. So she'd read that book the whole year before. So that was my point. What gets the what gets the end and Robins was like gets the engine revving. Exactly. But to me erotic romance, again isn't about whether your open door or closed door or whether your, what your heat level or your explicit level is. It's the difference between, to me erotic romance is when sex leads to love. Gotcha. So, erotica is just sex. But erotic romance is when you is you know, when two adults get together and they have, you know, a physical connection and they have lots of naughty times, and somewhere along the way feelings develop and then turn into their hga or hfm. Right, but the storyline is about how sex lead can lead to love. But again, my opinion, personally, not necessarily what everybody else thinks. I mean, I know rW a if your doors open your erotic romance, right? Well, it just annoys me. Yeah, I agree with you. Sylvia day, I don't know if you've heard of her. But she's, she's a writer. So she's defines erotic romance as stories written about the development of a romantic relationship through such sexual interaction. Right. The sex is an inherent part of the story, character growth and relationship development and couldn't be removed without damaging the story live happily ever after is a requirement to be in erotic romance. Yes. And I think a lot of BDSM club romances fall into that category, right? Because they meet they decide to be play partners, and then through the submission and dominance or whatever it is that they're practicing feelings develop and closeness, development, and you know, and then love develops, and all those kinds of things. It's almost the opposite of a slow burn. A slow burn is where all the feelings develop eventually into sexy times. Right? If you reverse it, you get erotic romance. I get annoyed when just because my heat level is high. And my explicit level is high. People classify me as erotic romance. And I'm like, well, and I agree with you. I mean, there's also sexy romance like if you really want to get into it, and sexy romance stories about the development of a romantic relationship that just happened to have some explicit sex. Right? And I would consider my stuff. Sexy romance. Yeah. Contemporary sexy romance and it has these different wrappings. Rather, like I said, whether it is about this Saturday, everything but those wrappings are just another way to show you the relationship. Yeah. And I think as we've been going through this all i one of the most important things that we we can talk about is just that there is very rarely a pure anything. Yes. And even after we go through all these sub genres, one of the things that I've said before is it is extremely rare to have something that I would call a pure romance, you know that it's not hysterical, historical, you know, like, where it is just boy meets girl, we follow the relationship on dates, they grow to have feelings with each other, they end up together, like there's no necessarily internal conflict or external conflict, which is just development of feelings. Yeah, yeah, it's true. I mean, I even think about something that was supposed to be simplistic, which was Greece. And I think about that. And it's like, no, they had all of the pressures that comes with being teenagers, right? And they had all the pressures with being from the wrong side of the tracks, I think of the outsiders. Same thing, right? The one from the wrong side of the tracks falls in love with the one that's on the right side of the tracks. And, you know, that's an age old thing, but it's, you're right, it's I don't think I've ever read a very basic story of that nature. And I wonder if part of that is is that it might be boring. Like, if there is no internal struggle, whether it be class or you know, whatever, yeah, there's, you know, or past hurts or whatever. If it's just literally a healthy Girl Meets a healthy boy, they usually develop feelings, and then they end up together. Yeah, exactly. Well, and if if you were to look at a breakdown erotica as itself, that's the sexual journey of the characters, right? It doesn't necessarily have to have a happily ever after. Right, right. So there's, it's a, it's not even like you said before, it's not even necessarily a romance. erotica is exploring something completely different. I think the purpose of romance is to take you on a journey. Yeah. The purpose of romance is to take you on a journey with two people from a part to kick together. The purpose of erotica is to tantalize you to raise the, you know, the sexual feelings within you. And while romance may do that, also, it's not its main purpose, whereas the main purpose of erotica is to tempt and tantalize. Right? So yeah, yeah. All right. Well, I think that covers sub genres. We look forward to hearing from you and hope you tune in next week. Thank you for listening to coast to coast romance. I'm Ann Jensen. And I'm Skylar West. If you'd like to contact either of us, our links are located in the show notes. Have a great week. Thanks so much for joining us.